----------
10 April 1972
Dear Reverend Walters,
Many thanks for your letter of April 3, which just got here. Under separate cover, I am returning to you the photocopies of Nibley's articles in the IMPROVEMENT ERA; I have the whole set, and you mught be able to use the copies. I must confess that I haven't actually managed to read the thing from one end to the other. As you say, it is virtually impossible to refute what Nibley writes as fast as he produces it -- and quite difficult, since what the LDS would demand is proof that something isn't the way Nibley says it is, when often all the conscientious scholar can say is that the evidence doesn't support a conclusion of any kind.
To put it briefly and in general form, the problem facing us with the study of Egyptian religion is one (probably) common to all polytheistic religions. The Egyptians were essentially pantheistic, believing in one divine substance that could manifest itself in a great many different ways. While for the common believer (and for the purposes of the cult) each image was a separate entity (and thus there were many Amons, who could even disagree with one another), at the same time that each god could be seen as many gods (from one point of view), many gods could be seen as one (from another aspect). There may well be a train of thought leading to the trinitarian theology of the Alexandrians here. One even finds identifications of gods across the sex line (which isn't supposed to happen according to theoreticians of religion). One result, of course, is that symbols can have a most confusing application. Just for the lotus, for instance, we have (Moren, Schubert, DER GOTT AUF DER BLUME: the primeval lotus that arose from the primeval waters at creation (hence creator), the lotus at the nose of Re (the creator) (hence creation), god of perfume, hence Nefertem, Harsaphes, Harsomeeus, Re, Horus, King, etc. etc. Thus there is nothing that says (by the king of free association indulged in by the Egyptians in this sphere) that they could not have associated a lotus with a lion that guards the frontiers and hence meant Abraham -- unfortunately there is also no shred of evidence that they actually did so, and that is the important thing. In a world where anything can be anythin, the outsider who wants to prove something must do more than simply say that such and such is possible withing [sic] the framework of Egyptian thought. He must prove that it actually happened, something much harder. Similarly Heyerdahl's mistake: Even without the Ra trip, I would have been delighted to agree that the Egyptians _could_ have crossed the Atlantic with their (substantial) wooden ships. The question is: did they? If there were evidence (and there isn't), then even the failure of Hyerdahl's trip wouldn't prove anything. As it is, his success is equally meaningless.
In regard to the quotes from my letters; don't mention it to Tanner. There's no point in warming up ancient history, and I am, after all, in contact with them (may have mentioned it when I visited them in Salt Lake some years ago).
Dear Reverend Walters,
Many thanks for your letter of April 3, which just got here. Under separate cover, I am returning to you the photocopies of Nibley's articles in the IMPROVEMENT ERA; I have the whole set, and you mught be able to use the copies. I must confess that I haven't actually managed to read the thing from one end to the other. As you say, it is virtually impossible to refute what Nibley writes as fast as he produces it -- and quite difficult, since what the LDS would demand is proof that something isn't the way Nibley says it is, when often all the conscientious scholar can say is that the evidence doesn't support a conclusion of any kind.
To put it briefly and in general form, the problem facing us with the study of Egyptian religion is one (probably) common to all polytheistic religions. The Egyptians were essentially pantheistic, believing in one divine substance that could manifest itself in a great many different ways. While for the common believer (and for the purposes of the cult) each image was a separate entity (and thus there were many Amons, who could even disagree with one another), at the same time that each god could be seen as many gods (from one point of view), many gods could be seen as one (from another aspect). There may well be a train of thought leading to the trinitarian theology of the Alexandrians here. One even finds identifications of gods across the sex line (which isn't supposed to happen according to theoreticians of religion). One result, of course, is that symbols can have a most confusing application. Just for the lotus, for instance, we have (Moren, Schubert, DER GOTT AUF DER BLUME: the primeval lotus that arose from the primeval waters at creation (hence creator), the lotus at the nose of Re (the creator) (hence creation), god of perfume, hence Nefertem, Harsaphes, Harsomeeus, Re, Horus, King, etc. etc. Thus there is nothing that says (by the king of free association indulged in by the Egyptians in this sphere) that they could not have associated a lotus with a lion that guards the frontiers and hence meant Abraham -- unfortunately there is also no shred of evidence that they actually did so, and that is the important thing. In a world where anything can be anythin, the outsider who wants to prove something must do more than simply say that such and such is possible withing [sic] the framework of Egyptian thought. He must prove that it actually happened, something much harder. Similarly Heyerdahl's mistake: Even without the Ra trip, I would have been delighted to agree that the Egyptians _could_ have crossed the Atlantic with their (substantial) wooden ships. The question is: did they? If there were evidence (and there isn't), then even the failure of Hyerdahl's trip wouldn't prove anything. As it is, his success is equally meaningless.
In regard to the quotes from my letters; don't mention it to Tanner. There's no point in warming up ancient history, and I am, after all, in contact with them (may have mentioned it when I visited them in Salt Lake some years ago).
Sincerely,
Klaus Baer
Klaus Baer
1 comments:
Chris,
These letters are wonderful. I appreciate your sharing them with the public.
Could you email me?
rbssman AT gmail DOT com
Post a Comment